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unexpected moment. He said that he believed that if
 
Allied Powers maintained a defensive position, and pre-
 
vented Germany from breaking through, that alone would
 
result in Allied victory. Germany could only be victorious
 
by breaking through, whereas the Allied Powers could be
 
victorious by either preventing Germany from breaking
 
through, or by breaking through themselves.
 
     I said to the Minister that in my conversations in
 
Berlin I had found the Fuehrer moderate in his manner of
 
speech with me, and Field Marshal Geering moderate and
 
somewhat more precise in what he said; but that even in
 
the case of those two men I had found them laboring under
 
the apparent conviction that military action by Germany
 
was the only hope for Germany, since otherwise Germany
 
would be hopelessly crushed. Count Ciano said that in 
 
his own Judgment Hitler today was completely under the 
 
influence of Ribbentrop, who, he said, had a fatally 
 
malignant influence. He said that the formerly close and 
 
pleasant relations which he himself had enjoyed with 
 
Goerlng no longer existed, presumably because Goering 
 
felt that he (Count Ciano) was responsible for the present 
 
non-belllgerent policy of Italy. He said that when he 
 
went to Berlin last October Goering had not seen him, nor 
 
had Goering made any attempt to communicate with him.
 
        Count Ciano said that he wanted to remind me that 
 
Mussolini was definitely "pro-German". He said that, 
 
notwithstanding this fact, Mussolini would never endanger
 
the position of Italy, nor would he in any way change the
 
present policy of Italy so as to add to the complexities
 
of the present European situation. He wished to assure
 
                                                  me